MICHELLE UZETA: Okay, so today we're gonna cover a few things. The laws that protect people with disabilities from discrimination in housing, what does discrimination look like, and then Kara is gonna go over the California Civil Rights Department's Complaint Process. And that third part is really gonna be the focus of today. Next slide. So, I'm not gonna go too deeply into the laws that prohibit discrimination in housing. Many of you have been to presentations that either DREDF has done or others have done and have a basic understanding, but I will say a few things about the laws that come into play. So on the federal level you have the Federal Fair Housing Act, and that is a federal law that covers most housing. In very limited circumstances the act will exempt owner-occupied buildings with no more than four units, single family houses that are sold or rented by their owner without the use of an agent, or housing operated by religious organizations and private clubs that limit their occupancy to members. There's also Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act, which prohibits disability discrimination in programs receiving HUD funds or other federal financial assistance. There's the Americans with Disabilities Act, sometimes referred to as the ADA. And that act applies to places of public accommodation, which could include places like skilled nursing facilities or private university housing, RV parks, any kind of place that is open to the general public and provides goods or services. And the act also applies to services, programs, or activities of state or local government. So that would include housing like public university housing or governmental housing programs. On the state level you have California's Fair Employment and Housing Act which largely mirrors the protections of the Federal Fair Housing Act with a few broader protections here in California with regard to who's covered and the rights that they have. You also have the Unruh Civil Rights Act, which is a state law that applies to persons or entities that are in the business of renting or selling housing. That applies to business entities. So this would cover landlords, rental agencies, management companies, et cetera. It also incorporates by reference the protections of the Americans with Disabilities Act. And then lastly, you have the Disabled Persons Act, which prohibits discrimination by housing accommodations in California. And those protections mirror those of the State Fair Employment and Housing Act. And like the Unruh Act, it also incorporates by reference the protections of the ADA. This is not an exclusive list of laws that may come into play when you have a housing discrimination case. You may also have negligence claims, unfair competition law claims. So just keep that in mind. The claims that you assert in any kind of case or the rights that you have will really depend on the circumstances of your particular situation. Next slide. So these laws all kind of have a common theme about the general prohibition or the general rules. They generally provide that no person should be subjected to discrimination because of their disability in any type of housing related transaction. This would include sale, rental, advertising of housing, the provision of brokerage services, or in the availability of residential real estate-related transactions. Next slide. The laws cover, and again it depends on which laws you're talking about, but these laws generally apply to a wide range of entities and individuals. So owners of housing, managers of housing, homeowners associations or condo associations, lenders, real estate agents, brokers, governments, insurers, developers and builders, architects, contractors, engineers, and really anybody or any entity that is involved with residential housing. Next slide. The dwellings that are covered are also quite broad. The term dwelling is generally defined as a structure or part of a structure that's designed or intended to be occupied as a residence by one or more families, or one or more persons. It also includes vacant land that is going to be used for the construction of such structures or housing. Next slide. Some examples of covered dwellings include private or subsidized properties that are used as housing, single family dwellings, duplexes, multiple family apartment buildings, migrant housing, temporary shelters, group homes, nursing homes, assisted living facilities, other types of residential housing, and as I mentioned earlier, university housing is also covered. Next slide please. So now we're talking about what does discrimination look like? What are the prohibited practices under these laws? And there's a number of them. First, the refusal to sell or rent to somebody after making a genuine offer based on the person's disability. That's prohibited. Discriminating in the terms or conditions or privileges of a sale or rental of a dwelling is also illegal. So for example, requiring somebody to provide medical records to show that they can live independently. That would be prohibited. Requiring somebody with a disability to pay an excess deposit. For example, somebody uses a wheelchair, the management company says, "We want you to pay $250 extra in deposit because we believe your wheelchair will damage the wall, scrape the wall, somehow mark up the carpets, et cetera." That's not legal either. It's also prohibited to make or print or publish any kind of notice or statement that indicates a discriminatory preference. So you can't have advertisements that say "no wheelchairs allowed at this property," or "This property is for active seniors only," which suggests that people who have disabilities are not welcome. Those types of statements are discriminatory and are disallowed under the fair housing laws. Next slide please. Falsely telling somebody that a dwelling is not for sale or rent based on disability is also prohibited. I had a client once who was deaf and went to look at an advertised housing unit, and was told once they realized that he was deaf that the unit was no longer available to rent. That was a misrepresentation because of the person had a disability. That was not appropriate and was the subject of a lawsuit. Also steering people away or towards particular neighborhoods based on disability is prohibited. Again, I had a client who used a wheelchair who wanted to rent in a particular neighborhood. The management company suggested that they may want to look at the next town over because more disabled people lived in that neighborhood, it was closer to transportation, et cetera. And I don't believe the management company was trying to help that person by steering them in that direction, but they were trying to avoid having somebody with a disability in their particular complex. Discrimination in residential real estate transactions is disallowed, as is any kind of discrimination in the provision of brokerage services. And on this slide here I provide the citations to where you can find a list of the prohibitions. Those are the regulations under the Fair Housing Act. And the slides, I'll let people know will be circulated after the presentation later today. Next slide please. There are some practices that are specific to people with disabilities that are prohibited, and they're prohibited under both federal and state law. The first is the refusal to make a reasonable accommodation in rules, policies, practices or services if necessary for a person with a disability to use the housing. And, you know, a reasonable accommodation is any kind of change or adjustment that is necessary to avoid discrimination. It's also prohibited to refuse to allow someone with a disability to make a reasonable modification to their unit or common areas. And a reasonable modification is generally a change to the brick and mortar of the unit or the common areas. So things like cutting a curb, installing a ramp, putting in grab bars, lowering counters. Those are the types of things that we're talking about here. And again, there's some citations if you would like to learn more about those particular prohibitions. Next slide. A little more about reasonable accommodations. As I mentioned, reasonable accommodation is a change in a rule, policy, or practice or service that's necessary to avoid discrimination in housing. Some examples include the adjustment of a rent due date to accommodate someone's receipt of public benefits. If someone's public benefits arrive on the 10th of the month, they can ask us an accommodation that they'd be allowed to pay rent on the 10th rather than the first or the third like other tenants may as an accommodation. Another example is a unit transfer to a quieter unit because noise aggravates a tenant's disability. I had a client who had post-traumatic stress disorder, had a unit that was in the middle of a multi-unit complex. The noise really aggravated their disability, they asked for a transfer to a unit that was more at the end of the complex and a little more quiet, and that accommodation was granted. That's something that's available as well. Another one, pretty common one is a waiver of a no pet policy to accommodate someone's assistance animal, their service animal or emotional support dog. Next slide please. Modifications, again, physical changes to a dwelling or common area. Some examples, I've mentioned some of these already, installation of a grab bar, adding a ramp to make the entrance to your unit accessible, altering common area walkways or cutting a curb to provide access to parking lots or other common use areas. Installation of blinking doorbells or other kinds of emergency alarms for someone who may be deaf or hard of hearing. A couple of notes, who pays for these types of modification depends on the housing involved. If it's private housing, the cost usually falls on the tenant. If it's public housing, the cost usually shifts to the provider of the housing, the state or local government. And restoration, meaning putting things back the way they were, may be required, but usually it's not. It depends on whether the changes that you made would really interfere with the next tenant's ability to use the property. And restoration is never required in common areas. Next slide please. The interactive process is... The failure to engage in the interactive process can be discrimination under the fair housing law as well. And by interactive process we mean some kind of communication back and forth between the person with a disability and the housing provider about an accommodation or modification need to identify what can and should be provided. Under federal law there's no stand-alone liability for the failure of a housing provider to engage in an interactive process with the tenant who needs an accommodation or modification. But it is a factor that's considered in whether somebody is denying an accommodation or modification request. And both case law and materials from the Department of Housing and Urban Development and Department of Justice really suggest and encourage that housing providers engage in that process. Under our state laws, that process is required due to some changes in regulations that went into effect in 2020. So under our state laws, housing providers are required to engage in an interactive process with people who request accommodations or modifications in order to exchange information to identify, evaluate, and implement their request. And if a request is unreasonable, a provider must engage in that back and forth, that give and take, to find out if there's an alternative that is available and feasible. Next slide. I have two more slides here. Discrimination can also result from the failure to design and construct new housing in a way that is accessible. Housing built for first occupancy after March 1991 must include multiple areas of accessibility, accessible building entrance on an accessible route, accessible and usable public and common use areas, usable doors, which means the doors should be wide enough for people to use, not have a threshold, accessible routes into and throughout units. Light switches, electrical outlets, and other environmental controls in accessible locations. Reinforced walls so people can install grab bars when they need them, and usable kitchens and bathrooms, which usually mean they're talking there primarily about, you know, the width and the clearance available so someone with a wheelchair can go in, turn their wheelchair around, and use that space. Next slide. And finally, disability discrimination can also come in the form of retaliation. It is illegal to coerce, intimidate, or threaten or interfere with anyone who is asserting their fair housing rights or anyone who's assisting someone in exercising their fair housing rights. And the citation for that is there as well. Final slide please. Here, I just listed a number of resources that are really helpful to someone trying to understand the rights of people with disabilities in housing. There's the joint statement on reasonable accommodations, the joint statement on reasonable modifications. I don't know what that third joint statement is, it probably is the joint statement on design and construction requirements. And then I provided a link to the HUD Design Manual. And I encourage people to look at those resources. The first three, the joint statements of the Department of Housing and Urban Development and the Department of Justice are done in a question and answer format. Really easy to understand and largely in plain language. So they're really good resources for advocates, for members of the community alike. And with that, I will turn it over to Kara.

KARA BRODFUEHRER: Hi everyone. If you could go on to the next slide, that would be great. So, I'm Kara Brodfuehrer. I'm a senior attorney with the California Civil Rights Department. We used to be the Department of Fair Employment Housing. Here's my boring lawyerly disclaimer. Obviously, you know, we're just giving you this for informational purposes only. We're not giving you legal advice, we're not establishing policy. And you know, this is the information that's current as of today. But, you know, well law is always changing, so just be aware of that. Next slide. So just a little bit about us. We're the California State Agency that enforces many of California's civil rights laws, including housing discrimination laws, laws that protect people from discrimination in public accommodations, hate violence, and human trafficking. Next slide. So this is just a bit about what we do. I think most people know us as the agency that people can go to if they have been subject to discrimination in housing or employment. And we take complaints, and we investigate complaints when they're based on discrimination that violates the laws that we enforce. We mediate or try and work out those disputes between the parties. Sometimes we go to court to enforce the laws if we get a complaint that we wanna enforce in court. We also, you know, because we enforce the Fair Employment and Housing Act, we actually have an appointed counsel that makes regulations. Interpreting that law to kind of make it a little more clear, kind of what, you know, different types of discrimination looks like and the different legal requirements. We do outreach and education as well. So, next slide. This is just a little info on how to access our services if you're a person with disability or you know someone who has a disability that wants to access our services. And the next slide, this is just info on how to access our services in the languages other than English. So next slide. And then this is just a little info about our complaint data. Unfortunately, it's very outdated and we are working on our 2022 and 2023 annual reports, but they're not out yet. So I'm sharing you the 2021 Housing Complaint Data. We got 898 individual complaints for housing discrimination. The light, like middle blue color represents disability complaints. It's the biggest piece of the pie, it's 41%. So disability discrimination, it's always has been our number one complaint basis. We also take complaints, like you can file something for disability discrimination and for failure to reasonably accommodate. So we also, in addition to those disability complaints, at least 8% of them but I'm sure more involve the failure to accommodate. And then there's other protected characteristics as well. Next slide. And then this is just kind of how things broke down. So there's more basis, or protective characteristics than there are complaints because a lot of times when you file a complaint, you're saying there's discrimination based on many different things. So this is just kinda how it shook out in 2021. Next slide. And this is just a little information on our complaint process, which is what I'm really gonna be covering today. And it's important to note that if you're not filing, and I'm gonna be talking about housing discrimination today. So if you're not filing based on employment discrimination, there is a slightly different process. And this is just a little flow chart that kinda breaks it down, but I'm gonna be going through this process. So next slide. So in a nutshell, if you're filing an employment discrimination case, you have to do this thing called exhaustion, which means you have to tell us about your discrimination and either let us investigate or ask us for a letter that allows you to go to court and sue. But you do not need to do that for housing. If you don't wanna file a complaint with us, you don't have to. You can just go right ahead and go to court if that's what you want to do. So it's different in housing. Next slide. All right, so let's talk about the complaint process. I'm gonna do it in a way that I think is a little more interesting. I'm gonna go through a hypothetical. So this is Rabiah. She's a single parent of two small kids and her family lives in a large apartment complex in Fresno. The complex has two pools and a common area with grass, concrete pathways, and grills. And one of her daughter has Down syndrome. Next slide. She's received two written complaints from management about her kids. One said that her kids are not permitted to play in the common areas. The other said kids are not permitted to use the pool except for Monday to Friday, nine to three, and that's when kids are usually in school. Her manager told her if she causes any more trouble she's gonna be evicted. And Rabiah has seen other families with kids uses the pool on the weekend, including her neighbor who has a three-year-old. But when Rabiah asked her neighbor if she's ever been told to not use the pool on the weekend, her neighbor says no. And the neighbor also adds that the managers mentioned on several occasions that she feels uncomfortable around Rabiah's daughter because she has Down syndrome and she thinks it would be better if she lived in, quote-unquote, "some sort of group home". Rabiah is obviously very upset about all of this and she Googles housing discrimination, and she finds the CRD website and decides she wants to file a complaint. So next slide. So this is the first step in the complaint process. So, Rabiah could go online and file a complaint on our website. To do that, you have to register an account with this thing called CCRS. It'll take you through that process. The positive of the system is it lets you kind of check back in. Like you can log back in. It's kind of like an email system where you can kind of see where things are with the case and upload documents and different things. Next slide. You can also print and mail a complaint, or if you need an accommodation. To file out a complaint, you can do it by phone or in another way. If you need an accommodation with different types of accessibility devices, for example, here's some information on how to do that. But it's also on at the beginning of this presentation, that information is also there. Next slide. So Rabiah decides to file a complaint online, but she's confused by the CCRS system because her preferred language is Farsi. So, she can actually request translation services and we can get somebody that speaks Farsi to assist her in filing the complaint. Next slide. And that's info on requesting a reasonable accommodation. Next slide. So step two, this is the intake and interview process. So Rabiah is contacted by CRD and she's given an appointment to speak with an investigator over the phone. I will tell you that our appointments are, we have a lot of complaints and not enough staff so definitely it can take a while to get an appointment to speak to an investigator. It could be six, eight weeks, sometimes a little longer. The investigator makes an appointment and talks to Rabiah and determines that the housing provider's action as Rabiah talks about could be housing discrimination based on the Fair Employment and Housing Act. And also, we have a relationship with HUD, they're like the federal agency that oversees housing discrimination complaints, so we also tell them about housing discrimination complaints that violate their laws. So we share information with each other. The investigator sends a copy of the complaint to Rabiah to take a look at and sign. And the complaint will also be sent to the housing provider within 30 days. Next slide. So then, after the complaint has been filed and sent to both parties, it's then assigned to an investigator who does interviews with the complainant, which I guess I already talked about. And then, just some notes. As far as with the intake interview process, if you're filing a complaint you should try and have all the information that you think supports your complaint of housing discrimination available. I know it's hard to organize and things come up in conversations where you're like, "Oh, I should have this." But generally, just try and write down or just think about like what the dates are that things happened. If you have the name and contact information of the housing provider and any witnesses and copies of any emails or documents or pictures or anything related to your complaint, the more info you can bring to that initial discussion, the better. It'll move things along. Next slide. And as I said before, if we have jurisdiction we'll send the complaint to the complainant and to the other party. And, you know, sometimes we hear about complaints of discrimination and we decide that it's actually not based on what the person's saying, it doesn't violate the Fair Employment and Housing Act or another law that we enforce and we don't accept the complaint. We say, "Hey, we don't have jurisdiction over this. You're talking about something that we don't enforce." If we do that and somebody disagrees with us, they can appeal that decision. So say you file a complaint with us and you think that it does fall within the Fair Employment and Housing Act, you can appeal that decision and say, "Hey, take a look at this again." So next slide. All right, so now this is the investigation process. In our hypothetical, Rabiah gives the investigator the contact info for her neighbor to act as a witness. And she sends him copies of the notices she received from the manager. The investigator speaks to Rabiah's witness and reviews the documents. He also speaks with the manager and asks them for some documents, including any written rules enforced by the complex. Next slide. So, during the investigations process, we, as the state agency that enforces civil rights, we independently investigate the case. We're supposed to, you know, we're not representing either party. We're not representing the person complaining, we're not representing the housing provider. Our job is just to look into the facts. And our investigation can include looking, going through the info that the complainant gave to the person, and going through the information that the complainant gave, interviewing parties and witnesses, reviewing documentation. It's important to note that we have one year from the date that the complaint is signed by the complainant to complete our investigation, which is not a very long amount of time. Next slide. So next step is step four, mediation. So in our hypothetical, while the investigation is being conducted, Rabiah is contacted by the investigator to see if she's interested in mediating her complaint. So this is the investigator, not a trained mediator. Our investigators will try sometimes to come to a mediation or work things out between the complainant and the housing provider. Rabiah is nervous because she doesn't have an attorney, but the investigator explains that it won't affect her complaint and she's not obligated to agree to anything. Rabiah agrees to participate and is asked to tell them what she would like to happen in order for the complaint to be resolved. She says she just wants her kids to be able to play in the common areas and wants the manager to be fired. The investigator goes to the housing provider, and the housing provider's like, "No, I'm not agreeing to fire the manager." These parties will also be offered the possibility of a more formal mediation if they wanna do that, but they also refuse in this hypothetical. Next slide. So this is just a little bit more information on our mediation process at this point. You know, mediations are always voluntary. They're voluntary unless we find cause. So if we go, and we're gonna go through this a little more, but if we go through the investigation and we decide, "Oh hey, this is housing discrimination," then we do have to mediate the complaint. But at this point, it's voluntary. You don't have to do it. Mediators can communicate directly with people or through their attorney if the persons are represented, And it's just, again just general stuff on mediations, but it's important to just try and engage in the process and try and come to some type of resolution. It's important that both the complainant, both the housing provider go into it with good faith to try and kind of try and resolve the complaint, or it's probably not gonna work. Next slide. All right, so just a little more info on our dispute resolution department. This is its own division of the Civil Rights Department, and they do a lot of work. A lot. Most of our cases, once they get to this point get resolved in one way or another. For example, in 2020 we settled 706 cases with a monetary value of over $11 million. And you can get both financial compensation, or money, or non-money remedies. Things like, in this case, Rabiah just wants to be able to use the pool. You can also agree to things like making the housing provider attend trainings and changing their policies. Next slide. So in our hypothetical, the investigation is completed. The investigator finds that there's cause to believe the housing provider has violated the Fair Employment and Housing Act based on disability discrimination and familial status discrimination. Now, the mediation is mandatory. And during the process, the parties agree that the complex are gonna let the kids go in the common areas, in the pool. They don't agree the manager will be fired, but they do agree that the staff has to participate in fair housing training and the property is also gonna distribute fair housing literature to all the residents. Next slide. So again, at the completion of the investigation, if we decide there's cause it will go to mediation. If we decide there's not cause, or we say there's insufficient evidence, we do close the case and you do have a right to appeal those. You can appeal it saying, you know, you do think there's cause. And we have a pretty robust appeals department and we do, from time to time, do overturn decisions for insufficient evidence or other reasons. And again, if we think there's cause there will be a mediation. So next slide. And if we find cause and we try and mediate and we can't come to resolution, on rare situations we will actually go forward and enforce the law in court. We have very little resources to do cases, but we do consider different factors. A lot of it is based on the information that we have, but also, if it's an issue that's gonna impact not just Rabiah but maybe a lot of other people, if we think that it's like a larger practice in the housing complex, or like maybe they're a large housing provider and we think that enforcing it will have a big impact on a lot of different people, and if it's gonna maybe change some things policy-wise, like on a larger level. If we don't go forward with civil litigation, Rabiah can get an attorney and go to court herself. Or, you know, she can go to court. It doesn't keep her from being able to do that if we don't take that up. Next slide. And again, these are some possible remedies that can happen if you go to court or in mediation. I think I talked about many of these. Next slide. And we also have a policy and a procedure called director's complaints. So sometimes we will, as a department, take on, and it's usually a case that's like a larger scale. So something we think is impacting a lot of people. And it could stem from an individual complaint, or a much larger investigation and we would file a complaint on behalf of the director of CRD, basically just trying to change like a larger policy. And again, we're really gonna consider if it's gonna have a larger impact on people versus like a very small impact. Next slide. And here's some resources, some frequently asked questions, our intake form. Just different information. We also have a lot of written materials on our website as well. And Michelle is right. You know, if we don't find cause you can still go forward on that case. It should not impact your case whatsoever. Or if we just decide not to go forward, we find insufficient evidence, you still have a right to go to court. Next slide. All right. And with that I think we have a few minutes for questions.

MICHELLE: Thanks, Kara. There are two questions that are geared to you.

KARA: Okay.

MICHELLE: The first is whether if you have a complaint that involves an eviction, do those take priority in the intake process? And I guess related, although this wasn't part of the question typed, how can you get it to be prioritized at CDR, or CRD?

KARA: So they're not automatically prioritize, but we also know at CRD that evictions move fast. And evictions that involve discrimination still move very fast. So, you know, we do have somebody who looks at all the complaints and kind of assigns them like a grade, and if they see that it involves an eviction or something that's very imminent, they will often flag it. But it's not a foolproof system. There are ways you could get in touch with us and let us know that. You know, things are moving fast. You can get in touch with the investigator. If you have an advocate or an attorney that's helping you, sometimes they do have relationships with folks at CRD that they can get in touch with to try and push things forward. But, I mean, we try really hard to prioritize things based on that. I mean, we don't always catch it. I will say if you have an eviction case involving discrimination and you haven't consulted an attorney or legal aid or somebody, you should do so because we can't represent people in evictions. We can't represent people in actual eviction proceedings and we may not get back to you in time. So, it's really important to seek other legal advice as well. I hope that's helpful.

MICHELLE: The second question was whether you can add information, I assume that means information not previously disclosed, to CRD when you're doing an appeal.

KARA: You know, I think you can, but I do believe the appeal is really based on the information that was presented. I'm gonna not give a completely definitive answer, but I'm happy to reach out to our appeals unit just to get a little clarity 'cause I don't wanna give you information that's not totally correct.

MICHELLE: If there are any more questions go ahead and post them in the chat. In the meantime, I'll alert people to the fact that there is an evaluation link in the webinar chat. We would really appreciate it if you would fill out that evaluation. I can also let people know that we're doing trainings for three more Fridays in this month of April, Fair Housing Month. So from 12 to one, for the next three Fridays. If you haven't registered already, please go to DREDF website, which is www, well I'll put it in the chat. But go to the DREDF website and if you access the calendar there's a way to register. Okay, so one other question popped up in the chat. Thank you, Sylvia. Okay, "I have a new client who uses a wheelchair and is having difficulty getting into the bathtub of his apartment. He asked the manager to take out the tub and install a walk-in shower. Manager offered instead to provide a large chair or device that will let him get into the tub without walking in. The family finds the device to be large and thinks it will make it hard for others to use the tub. Tenant prefers a walk-in shower. Is this an unreasonable request given the manager's willingness to provide the device or a bath chair. Tenant would like to find a contractor that can remove the tub shower at a cost that would be comparable to the cost of the chair device that the landlord is offering." That's a really good hypo that I may steal for future trainings. Well first, I mean, it depends on the type of housing involved, right? Because this is a reasonable modification. So if this is private housing, the cost is gonna be on the tenant. The manager can suggest something else as part of the interactive process, but really should defer to the tenant as to what's gonna work best for their disability and the rest of the people in the household. If there's something that, you know, a large device or chair that renders the shower or the tub unusable by other members of the family, or puts the tenant in danger that wouldn't exist if there was a walk-in shower, then I don't think that that would be considered a reasonable modification. It's not gonna be effective to providing access for the tenant. So the tenant should be able to push for the walk-in shower. One thing to note is that if, during the interactive process the owner, landlord, management company and the tenant agree on a modification that wasn't the one originally requested and there's a difference in cost for the tenant, that that difference in cost should be paid for by the management. So here, if the client said, "Oh fine, I'll do the large chair," but it's a thousand dollars more than the walk-in shower would've cost me, then the management would have to pay that $1,000 difference. So I hope that answers your question, Sylvia. Thank you for that. All right then. Despite the late start, we actually finished a couple of minutes early. I wanna thank Kara again for making the time to be with us today. Okay, yes, I thank you for the additional question in the chat. I will be sending around the slides from today's presentation. This presentation is also recorded, and within the next week or so should be up on DREDF's website. And I will put that website address in the chat right now.

KARA: I just wanna tell you all too, we have a monthly training series that we're doing and we're actually expanding to twice a month. If you sign up for our lister for trainings, you can register and I'll provide that to Michelle as well. So when she sends out the info, the information for those trainings will also be available.

MICHELLE: Yes, and the Civil Rights Department's trainings are also, they're always really good and thorough and it's great to attend them if you have interest in fair housing and your fair housing rights.

KARA: Thanks, Michelle. Appreciate it.

MICHELLE: And I will provide that site. Email me offline.

KARA: Yeah, I'll send you the link. We have a flyer with the registration link.

MICHELLE: Okay. All right, well thank you everybody for joining us,

KARA: to be here.

MICHELLE: and talk to you all soon. Bye.

KARA: Bye.